From kh at panix.com Tue Apr 15 22:04:04 2025 From: kh at panix.com (Kurt Hackenberg) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2025 18:04:04 -0400 Subject: Discourse emails not recognized as coming from a mailing-list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 01:50:35PM +0100, S?bastien Hinderer wrote: >I follow a discourse forum but with emails enabled as I am not >comfortable with its web interface. > >For the moment, the emails I receive for forum posts appear as addressed >to me (with a + flag) rather than coming from a mailing list (with the L >flag). > >At the beginning I thouhgt it was because the emails do not have the >expected List-* headers but they actually do: > >List-Unsubscribe: >List-Unsubscribe-Post: List-Unsubscribe=One-Click >List-ID: OCaml | Learning >List-Archive: >https://discuss.ocaml.org/t/collaboration-on-ocaml-project-1-claudius-outreachy/16325 > >Still, it is my personal address which appears in the To: field. Are those all the List-* headers in the message? If that's all of them, I think I see the problem. Mutt apparently uses List-Post:, which is not in your headers above. According to the Mutt manual, the commands "list" and "subscribe", and the auto-subscribe thing, all use List-Post:. I think the expando "%L" in $index_format also uses the email address from List-Post:. List-Post: seems wrong to me. All of those Mutt functions are about identifying mailing lists, which probably should use List-ID:. List-Post: is defined by RFC 2369, published in 1998; List-ID: is defined by RFC 2919, published in 2001. Maybe the Mutt implementation was written in between, when List-Post: existed but List-ID: did not. From Sebastien.Hinderer at ens-lyon.org Wed Apr 16 11:48:43 2025 From: Sebastien.Hinderer at ens-lyon.org (=?utf-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien?= Hinderer) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 13:48:43 +0200 Subject: Discourse emails not recognized as coming from a mailing-list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Kurt, Many thanks for your precious feedback below! There is definitely no List-Post header in the emails sent by Discourse. It is actually a funny coincidence to receive your email on this today because it's precisely today that I started to change my mind on the idea that theproblem had to be fixed on Discourse's side. Precisely today I startedto think it might be at Mutt's level that theproblem could be fixed. Still, as I mentionned in another thread, I am subscribed to a list to which the posters send emails in Bcc and such emails are not recognized as lists by Mutt although, ijust checked, they do have the List-Post header. This also suggests to me that htere may be room for improvement in mutt itself, re its ways of identifiying that an emailcomes froma mailing list. Thanks again, Seb. Kurt Hackenberg (2025/04/15 18:04 -0400): > On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 01:50:35PM +0100, S?bastien Hinderer wrote: > > > I follow a discourse forum but with emails enabled as I am not > > comfortable with its web interface. > > > > For the moment, the emails I receive for forum posts appear as addressed > > to me (with a + flag) rather than coming from a mailing list (with the L > > flag). > > > > At the beginning I thouhgt it was because the emails do not have the > > expected List-* headers but they actually do: > > > > List-Unsubscribe: > > List-Unsubscribe-Post: List-Unsubscribe=One-Click > > List-ID: OCaml | Learning > > List-Archive: https://discuss.ocaml.org/t/collaboration-on-ocaml-project-1-claudius-outreachy/16325 > > > > Still, it is my personal address which appears in the To: field. > > Are those all the List-* headers in the message? If that's all of them, I > think I see the problem. Mutt apparently uses List-Post:, which is not in > your headers above. > > According to the Mutt manual, the commands "list" and "subscribe", and the > auto-subscribe thing, all use List-Post:. I think the expando "%L" in > $index_format also uses the email address from List-Post:. > > > > > List-Post: seems wrong to me. All of those Mutt functions are about > identifying mailing lists, which probably should use List-ID:. > > List-Post: is defined by RFC 2369, published in 1998; List-ID: is defined by > RFC 2919, published in 2001. Maybe the Mutt implementation was written in > between, when List-Post: existed but List-ID: did not. From mlmaitra at gmx.com Wed Apr 16 20:05:15 2025 From: mlmaitra at gmx.com (Ranjan Maitra) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 15:05:15 -0500 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) Message-ID: Hi, So, I like to have my email window to have a light theme and everything else to have a dark theme (to distinguish things easily and sort of intuitively). I consider myself a short-time mutt user, having been using it for a bit under five years I am not sure I know or use many of the features that are possible using mutt. Anyway, I usually use mutt with `xterm -e mutt` but now I have been wanting to use a light theme. Such as the light solarized theme as available here: https://github.com/altercation/mutt-colors-solarized/blob/master/mutt-colors-solarized-light-256.muttrc However, I get a dark background in my mutt window. Is this because my xterm is set to have black background. I tried using `xterm -bg "#ffffff" -fg '#000000' -e mutt`` and that does help some, however, I am not sure if there is a better preferred way. Some information: my mutt is the Fedora distribution packaged version, composed using ncurses. I guess (though this is really my guess and nothing more) that the dark background is happening because of the use of default in the theme(?). If that is the case, I was wondering if there is a way to set the default theme to something without changing the terminal. I looked at http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/#color but I could not tell how to set up the default. There is the following: set COLORFGBG="green;black" export COLORFGBG but where is this set? Inside the theme, or outside the source? Sorry I am not very clear what to do with this, or even if it will help! Many thanks for any suggestions, and best wishes, Ranjan From tmz at pobox.com Wed Apr 16 20:41:39 2025 From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 16:41:39 -0400 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: > So, I like to have my email window to have a light theme > and everything else to have a dark theme (to distinguish > things easily and sort of intuitively). > > I consider myself a short-time mutt user, having been > using it for a bit under five years I am not sure I know > or use many of the features that are possible using mutt. > > Anyway, I usually use mutt with `xterm -e mutt` but now I > have been wanting to use a light theme. Such as the light > solarized theme as available here: > > https://github.com/altercation/mutt-colors-solarized/blob/master/mutt-colors-solarized-light-256.muttrc > > However, I get a dark background in my mutt window. Is > this because my xterm is set to have black background. > > I tried using `xterm -bg "#ffffff" -fg '#000000' -e mutt`` > and that does help some, however, I am not sure if there > is a better preferred way. > > Some information: my mutt is the Fedora distribution > packaged version, composed using ncurses. > > I guess (though this is really my guess and nothing more) > that the dark background is happening because of the use > of default in the theme(?). If that is the case, I was > wondering if there is a way to set the default theme to > something without changing the terminal. Have you looked at the issues and pull requests for that repository? This issue appears to be the same as you report: https://github.com/altercation/mutt-colors-solarized/issues/1 And it includes a link to a pull request at the end which might help: https://github.com/altercation/mutt-colors-solarized/pull/13 I don't know offhand if you can make it all look as you want when the terminal and muttrc colors are set as dark and light, respectively. I think you can get pretty close by changing the various background colors from 'default' to a specific light color. That is what the changes suggested in the pull request above do, using 'brightwhite' but you can use any color you like (within the 256 colors available, of course). -- Todd -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 228 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tmz at pobox.com Wed Apr 16 20:46:09 2025 From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 16:46:09 -0400 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wrote: > I think you can get pretty close by changing the various > background colors from 'default' to a specific light color. > > That is what the changes suggested in the pull request above > do, using 'brightwhite' but you can use any color you like > (within the 256 colors available, of course). Or maybe not, as the specific color scheme you referenced doesn't use 'default' so I may be way off. :) -- Todd -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 228 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tmz at pobox.com Wed Apr 16 20:54:08 2025 From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 16:54:08 -0400 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wrote: > I wrote: >> I think you can get pretty close by changing the various >> background colors from 'default' to a specific light color. >> >> That is what the changes suggested in the pull request above >> do, using 'brightwhite' but you can use any color you like >> (within the 256 colors available, of course). > > Or maybe not, as the specific color scheme you referenced > doesn't use 'default' so I may be way off. :) Testing with pull request #13 does look decent. So it seems like the issue may be largely that the theme choice uses a bit of a dark background by default, but you can adjust it to suite your tastes. [sorry for the rapid-fire replies to myself.] -- Todd -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 228 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mlmaitra at gmx.com Wed Apr 16 23:04:19 2025 From: mlmaitra at gmx.com (Ranjan Maitra) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 18:04:19 -0500 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed Apr16'25 04:54:08PM, Todd Zullinger wrote: > From: Todd Zullinger > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 16:54:08 -0400 > To: mutt-users at mutt.org > Subject: Re: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) > > I wrote: > > I wrote: > >> I think you can get pretty close by changing the various > >> background colors from 'default' to a specific light color. > >> > >> That is what the changes suggested in the pull request above > >> do, using 'brightwhite' but you can use any color you like > >> (within the 256 colors available, of course). > > > > Or maybe not, as the specific color scheme you referenced > > doesn't use 'default' so I may be way off. :) > > Testing with pull request #13 does look decent. So it seems > like the issue may be largely that the theme choice uses a > bit of a dark background by default, but you can adjust it > to suite your tastes. > > [sorry for the rapid-fire replies to myself.] No problem, thank you very much for this! I see, I thought that these pull requests had been committed and the final product was included here. It never occurred to me that the "buggy" code is not updated. Sorry for a very basic question: how do I download this corrected pull request file. One way out appears to me to be to simply change the "default" to "brightwhite". But I was also wondering if there is a better way to simply set the default to be something else (instead of changing it). Many thanks again, and best wishes, Ranjan PS: Off-topic to this thread, but I have realized that the mutt mailing list does not have Reply-To set to the mailing list. Is there a way to set this by default (in my .muttrc)? Many thanks again, and best wishes, Ranjan From kh at panix.com Wed Apr 16 23:16:53 2025 From: kh at panix.com (Kurt Hackenberg) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 19:16:53 -0400 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 06:04:19PM -0500, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: >PS: Off-topic to this thread, but I have realized that the mutt >mailing list does not have Reply-To set to the mailing list. That's been a worldwide subject of argument for 20 or 30 years. Some people think mailing lists should do that, some think they should not. Mutt has a function , by default bound to 'L', that replies to a mailing list. See the manual. From mlmaitra at gmx.com Wed Apr 16 23:38:25 2025 From: mlmaitra at gmx.com (Ranjan Maitra) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 18:38:25 -0500 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed Apr16'25 07:16:53PM, Kurt Hackenberg wrote: > From: Kurt Hackenberg > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 19:16:53 -0400 > To: mutt-users at mutt.org > Subject: Re: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 06:04:19PM -0500, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: > > > PS: Off-topic to this thread, but I have realized that the mutt mailing > > list does not have Reply-To set to the mailing list. > > That's been a worldwide subject of argument for 20 or 30 years. Some people > think mailing lists should do that, some think they should not. Thank you. It would perhaps be a less of a problem if all mailing lists followed one protocol, and then it would be easy to develop a habit. It appears that most of the lists I am subscribed to follow the Reply-To set to mailing lists. > > Mutt has a function , by default bound to 'L', that replies to a > mailing list. See the manual. > > Can I set a folder-specific hook for this? All my mutt mailing emails are in a folder by the same name. Many thanks again, and best wishes, Ranjan From kh at panix.com Wed Apr 16 23:45:43 2025 From: kh at panix.com (Kurt Hackenberg) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 19:45:43 -0400 Subject: Discourse emails not recognized as coming from a mailing-list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 01:48:43PM +0200, S?bastien Hinderer wrote: >Still, as I mentionned in another thread, I am subscribed to a list to >which the posters send emails in Bcc and such emails are not recognized >as lists by Mutt although, ijust checked, they do have the List-Post >header. I don't know what you mean by "a list to which the posters send mail in Bcc". But it may not matter, because Mutt uses List-Post to recognize messages from mailing lists -- if you configure it to. You would need the "subscribe" or "list" command, or $auto_subscribe. Those two commands take regular expressions, which must match, I guess, the email address in a mailto URL in the List-Post header (I don't know exactly how it matches). Can you show us the List-Post header from that list, and whatever you use to configure Mutt to recognize it? From kh at panix.com Wed Apr 16 23:59:34 2025 From: kh at panix.com (Kurt Hackenberg) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 19:59:34 -0400 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 06:38:25PM -0500, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: >>Mutt has a function , by default bound to 'L', that >>replies to a mailing list. See the manual. >> >> > >Can I set a folder-specific hook for this? All my mutt mailing emails >are in a folder by the same name. Why would you want the behavior of that function to vary by folder? It replies to any mailto: URL that's in List-Post:, which should go to whatever list the original message came from. Have you tried ? Does it do what you want? (You don't have to send the reply, just see what Mutt generates in To: and CC:, and then abort the reply.) From mlmaitra at gmx.com Thu Apr 17 01:07:47 2025 From: mlmaitra at gmx.com (Ranjan Maitra) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 20:07:47 -0500 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed Apr16'25 07:59:34PM, Kurt Hackenberg wrote: > From: Kurt Hackenberg > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 19:59:34 -0400 > To: mutt-users at mutt.org > Subject: Re: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 06:38:25PM -0500, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: > > > > Mutt has a function , by default bound to 'L', that > > > replies to a mailing list. See the manual. > > > > > > > > > > Can I set a folder-specific hook for this? All my mutt mailing emails > > are in a folder by the same name. > > Why would you want the behavior of that function to vary by folder? It > replies to any mailto: URL that's in List-Post:, which should go to whatever > list the original message came from. Thanks! So, all the lists I subscribe to appear to have Reply-To set to list. mutt appears to be the only that is not so. So, if I am able to set reply to to list for emails in my mutt folder, that should solve my problem (for now at least). > > Have you tried ? Does it do what you want? (You don't have to > send the reply, just see what Mutt generates in To: and CC:, and then abort > the reply.) Yes, it does work, thanks! However, I have to remember that this is a list and use that then. I am bound to forget this (as I was about to do right now) and therefore it would be better if I had one "r" set which worked for everything (lists or not) and did what I think is the appropriate thing for me. So, can I set up a folder hook to do this? Or something else? Many thanks again, and best wishes, Ranjan From kh at panix.com Thu Apr 17 03:22:19 2025 From: kh at panix.com (Kurt Hackenberg) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 23:22:19 -0400 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 08:07:47PM -0500, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: >>Have you tried ? Does it do what you want? (You don't >>have to send the reply, just see what Mutt generates in To: and CC:, >>and then abort the reply.) > >Yes, it does work, thanks! However, I have to remember that this is a >list and use that then. I am bound to forget this (as I was about to do >right now) and therefore it would be better if I had one "r" set which >worked for everything (lists or not) and did what I think is the >appropriate thing for me. > >So, can I set up a folder hook to do this? Or something else? Hmm...looks like you could use either folder-hook or message-hook to change the key binding of 'r' to . You'd have to explicitly set the key binding to the default for folders or messages that don't match. I would use message-hook, with a pattern ~h that contains a regular expression to match any message that contains a List-Post: header that contains a mailto: URL. (List-Post: can also contain other types of URLs, such as http:, which probably wouldn't do you much good.)[1] That way it would work for any message that came from a list, no matter where you stored the message. I haven't tried this, don't know whether it would work. There may be some other way, too. See the manual. ---------- [1] From mutt-users at veggiechinese.net Thu Apr 17 04:07:49 2025 From: mutt-users at veggiechinese.net (Will Yardley) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 21:07:49 -0700 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20250417040749.GB45682@aura.veggiechinese.net> On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 07:16:53PM -0400, Kurt Hackenberg wrote: > On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 06:04:19PM -0500, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: > > > PS: Off-topic to this thread, but I have realized that the mutt mailing > > list does not have Reply-To set to the mailing list. > > That's been a worldwide subject of argument for 20 or 30 years. Some people > think mailing lists should do that, some think they should not. > > Mutt has a function , by default bound to 'L', that replies to a > mailing list. See the manual. Agree... and of all the lists where it shouldn't matter as much, this is probably high on the list, exactly because most of its members shouldn't need to. This is also why Mutt has a built in feature to _ignore_ Reply-To when it matches the list address. To the OP: you can see some earlier threads about this, like https://lists.mutt.org/pipermail/mutt-users/Week-of-Mon-20241202/thread.html#4640 https://mutt-users.mutt.narkive.com/aYn852dy/how-to-reply-to-mailing-list-address-by-default Some disagree strongly, but this is probably the "classic" post about the subject: https://marc.merlins.org/netrants/reply-to-harmful.html /w From googly.negotiator862 at aceecat.org Thu Apr 17 04:11:00 2025 From: googly.negotiator862 at aceecat.org (googly.negotiator862 at aceecat.org) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 21:11:00 -0700 Subject: A mailing list not being recognized as such In-Reply-To: References: <20250401205859.GA58814@aura.veggiechinese.net> <48D8s0BHHw9WPxqN@aceecat.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 05, 2025 at 10:35:32AM -0700, googly.negotiator862 at aceecat.org wrote: > Can I make this a feature request? https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/-/issues/499 -- Ian From googly.negotiator862 at aceecat.org Thu Apr 17 04:21:28 2025 From: googly.negotiator862 at aceecat.org (googly.negotiator862 at aceecat.org) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 21:21:28 -0700 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 08:07:47PM -0500, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: > Yes, it does work, thanks! However, I have to remember that this is > a list and use that then. I am bound to forget this (as I was about > to do right now) and therefore it would be better if I had one "r" > set which worked for everything (lists or not) and did what I think > is the appropriate thing for me. Note that mutt tells you if a message is from a list - with an L in the index view and in the bottom status line of the pager. If you customize the formats of these elements, you can make that indicator much "louder". -- Ian From mlmaitra at gmx.com Thu Apr 17 12:48:08 2025 From: mlmaitra at gmx.com (Ranjan Maitra) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 07:48:08 -0500 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed Apr16'25 09:21:28PM, googly.negotiator862 at aceecat.org wrote: > From: googly.negotiator862 at aceecat.org > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 21:21:28 -0700 > To: mutt-users at mutt.org > Subject: Re: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 08:07:47PM -0500, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: > > > Yes, it does work, thanks! However, I have to remember that this is > > a list and use that then. I am bound to forget this (as I was about > > to do right now) and therefore it would be better if I had one "r" > > set which worked for everything (lists or not) and did what I think > > is the appropriate thing for me. > > Note that mutt tells you if a message is from a list - with an L in > the index view and in the bottom status line of the pager. If you > customize the formats of these elements, you can make that indicator > much "louder". > > -- > Ian Yes, my problem is that when I respond, I do not remember to check at the top especially for the longer mesages when it goes off the screen. I will look into message hooks to set this (as suggested by Kurt): I was thinking that someone may have done this anyway. Many thanks again, and best wishes, Ranjan From dvalin at internode.on.net Thu Apr 17 10:54:52 2025 From: dvalin at internode.on.net (dvalin at internode.on.net) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:54:52 +0000 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) Message-ID: On 16.04.25 15:05, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: > I tried using `xterm -bg "#ffffff" -fg '#000000' -e mutt`` and that does help some, however, I am not sure if there is a better preferred way. Better? Dunno, but for nigh on 40 years now, I've had eye-friendly light-on-dark in mutt, vim, etc. (Is the colour choice because it mimics the slate grey blackboards we had at school??) $ xterm -fg yellow -bg darkslategrey -cr red -e mutt That way the colours for mutt, a moment ago, remain effective now while I compose this post in vim, invoked as mutt's editor. There's over 700 named colours in rgb.txt: $ locate rgb.txt /etc/X11/rgb.txt /usr/share/X11/rgb.txt OK, some mutt-specificity is useful, so in .muttrc I also have: # Colours color bold?? red??????? default color index? black????? default ~D color body?? blue?????? default [\-\.+_a-zA-Z0-9]+@[\-\.a-zA-Z0-9]+ color body?? brightblue default (https?|ftp)://[\-\.,/%~_:?&=\#a-zA-Z0-9]+ #color body?? yellow??? default ^[^>|].* # highlight TOFU protection: color body? black?????? default? ^\\[---.* color body? brightgreen default? "^#v[-+]" color hdrdefault green default color header yellow default ^Subject color indicator brightgreen default color message black default color quoted yellow default color signature green default color status black default color tree green default # Fix brightred-on-black thread markers from /etc/Muttrc.d/colors.rc : color normal green????? default???????????? # Index & pager. # Fix the blue-on-black from /etc/Muttrc.d/colors.rc : color tilde green default On the other hand, a wheat3 background serves rather well for black-text PDFs: /usr/bin/xpdf -geometry 1200x900+5+0 -z width -papercolor wheat3 xxx.pdf It's what works for you which deserves to persist - I've needed to cut the eye-watering glare of white backgrounds; a muted semi-greenscreen display does that for me. Erik ? Yup, we wrote with pens with metal nibs, repeatedly dipping them in our desk's porcelain inkwell with a glass marble on top to essentially eliminate evaporation. Them wuz the days. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tmz at pobox.com Thu Apr 17 15:23:58 2025 From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 11:23:58 -0400 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: > Yes, my problem is that when I respond, I do not remember > to check at the top especially for the longer mesages when > it goes off the screen. > > I will look into message hooks to set this (as suggested > by Kurt): I was thinking that someone may have done this > anyway. I do this: # selectively remap 'r' to list-reply (R does a private reply) folder-hook . 'bind index r group-reply; bind index R reply' message-hook ~A 'bind index,pager r group-reply; bind index,pager R reply' message-hook ~l 'bind index,pager r list-reply; bind index,pager R reply' message-hook '~C git at vger.kernel.org' 'bind index,pager r group-reply; bind index R reply' I had `folder-hook '=lists/'` too, but `message-hook` has replaced that for me. I may not need `folder-hook .` anymore, but I haven't changed or tested it in several years. Kurt wondered why you'd ever want this to behave differently per folder and, for me, the answer is that not all lists have the same customs. I want mutt to "do the right thing" when I start a reply without having to change my behavior based on the list to which I am replying. I am using mutt because it greatly enhances my laziness, after all. -- Todd -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 228 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tmz at pobox.com Thu Apr 17 15:46:32 2025 From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 11:46:32 -0400 Subject: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: > On Wed Apr16'25 04:54:08PM, Todd Zullinger wrote: >> Testing with pull request #13 does look decent. So it seems >> like the issue may be largely that the theme choice uses a >> bit of a dark background by default, but you can adjust it >> to suite your tastes. [...] > I see, I thought that these pull requests had been > committed and the final product was included here. It > never occurred to me that the "buggy" code is not updated. That's the thing. One person's bug is another's feature. :) > Sorry for a very basic question: how do I download this > corrected pull request file. One way out appears to me to > be to simply change the "default" to "brightwhite". There are a number of ways to do that, depending on how familiar you are with git and whether want to use it for keeping track of these things. If you have just downloaded the muttrc theme files manually, you can do the same thing via the GitHub pull request web interface. Starting from: https://github.com/altercation/mutt-colors-solarized/pull/13 Go to the "Files changed" tab and scroll to the file you want, e.g.: mutt-colors-solarized-light-256.muttrc. Then click on the '...' at the far right, select "View file" and then use the "download raw file" option at the top right of the file (the down arrow icon). If you already use git to track the mutt-colors-solarized repos, you can fetch PR #13 within your local clone via: git fetch origin pull/13/head:pr13 and then switch to it with `git switch pr13` and you'll have the modified copies of the themes. Or, you can add .patch to any GitHub pull request and it will provide the changes in a format suitable for feeding to git am, e.g.: https://github.com/altercation/mutt-colors-solarized/pull/13.patch That can be fetched via curl and fed to git am, e.g.: curl -L https://github.com/altercation/mutt-colors-solarized/pull/13.patch | git am Like the previous method, this also presumes you are working in a clone of the mutt-colors-solarized git repository. > But I was also wondering if there is a better way to > simply set the default to be something else (instead of > changing it). I don't think there is. Using 'default' in the mutt color scheme is saying "use the default color from the terminal." If you want to have a light background in mutt in a terminal with a black background, you should set the color in the mutt color scheme config. Beyond that, mutt-colors-solarized-light-256.muttrc doesn't use 'default' anywhere, so that isn't the real issue there. It is simply that the colors chosen aren't as light as some expect. It's not even a bug, just a difference in tastes, so I can understand why the original author hasn't "fixed" it. You can always source the original color scheme and then override just the few colors you want too, if you think there will be other changes to those color schemes which you want to more easily sync and track via git. -- Todd -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 228 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kh at panix.com Thu Apr 17 18:49:04 2025 From: kh at panix.com (Kurt Hackenberg) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 14:49:04 -0400 Subject: Mailing lists [was: using a light theme...] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 11:23:58AM -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote: >I do this: > ># selectively remap 'r' to list-reply (R does a private reply) >folder-hook . 'bind index r group-reply; bind index R reply' >message-hook ~A 'bind index,pager r group-reply; bind index,pager R reply' >message-hook ~l 'bind index,pager r list-reply; bind index,pager R reply' >message-hook '~C git at vger.kernel.org' 'bind index,pager r group-reply; bind index R reply' Ah, I missed ~l. That's better than what I suggested, using ~h to detect a message from a list -- better if you have told Mutt what lists you're subscribed to (with command "subscribe" or $auto_subscribe). ~l depends on knowing that. >I had `folder-hook '=lists/'` too, but `message-hook` has >replaced that for me. I may not need `folder-hook .` >anymore, but I haven't changed or tested it in several >years. I think you don't need it. Looks like you used "folder-hook ." to reset to the default key bindings for messages not from lists, and now you do that with "message-hook ~A". Yes? >Kurt wondered why you'd ever want this to behave differently >per folder and, for me, the answer is that not all lists >have the same customs. > >I want mutt to "do the right thing" when I start a reply >without having to change my behavior based on the list to >which I am replying. Sure, but you could identify the list from the headers List-*:, rather than from what folder you stored the message in. In fact, it looks like you do something similar above. Doesn't "message-hook ~C" detect a message from a particular list, and set up custom key bindings for it? From kh at panix.com Thu Apr 17 19:15:42 2025 From: kh at panix.com (Kurt Hackenberg) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 15:15:42 -0400 Subject: Mailing lists [was: using a light theme...] In-Reply-To: <20250417040749.GB45682@aura.veggiechinese.net> References: <20250417040749.GB45682@aura.veggiechinese.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 09:07:49PM -0700, Will Yardley wrote: >This is also why Mutt has a built in feature to _ignore_ Reply-To when >it matches the list address. Well, look at that ($ignore_list_reply_to). >Some disagree strongly, but this is probably the "classic" post about >the subject: >https://marc.merlins.org/netrants/reply-to-harmful.html I agree with that, myself -- lists shouldn't hack up Reply-To:. Especially because, as that post says, that subverts the intent of Reply-To:, and so breaks things. That post doesn't even mention things like Mutt's 'L' , which makes this even easier. Thunderbird also has that command, in a handy button "Reply List". Probably some other mail readers have it too. To the original poster, Ranjan Maitra: if you're willing to do things like change key bindings per message, then you can get the behavior you want whether or not the list does the Reply-To: hack. So you don't need the hack. From tmz at pobox.com Thu Apr 17 20:41:54 2025 From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:41:54 -0400 Subject: Mailing lists [was: using a light theme...] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kurt Hackenberg wrote: >>I had `folder-hook '=lists/'` too, but `message-hook` has >>replaced that for me. I may not need `folder-hook .` >>anymore, but I haven't changed or tested it in several >>years. > > I think you don't need it. Looks like you used "folder-hook ." to > reset to the default key bindings for messages not from lists, and now > you do that with "message-hook ~A". Yes? I checked and it is needed. If you read a list message and then move back to another folder and want to reply to a message without first opening it, you need the folder-hook to reset the default bindings. Otherwise you press 'r' and get an error that no list is found. That's not perfect, as you might store list and non-list mail in the same folder. I don't do that, so it isn't a problem I need to solve. >>Kurt wondered why you'd ever want this to behave differently >>per folder and, for me, the answer is that not all lists >>have the same customs. >> >>I want mutt to "do the right thing" when I start a reply >>without having to change my behavior based on the list to >>which I am replying. > > Sure, but you could identify the list from the headers List-*:, rather > than from what folder you stored the message in. In fact, it looks > like you do something similar above. Doesn't "message-hook ~C" detect > a message from a particular list, and set up custom key bindings for It does, but it requires that a message is read first. So if I change to a different mail folder and want to reply, the folder-hooks can be quite useful. I separate my list and non-list mail so it was pretty easy to take advantage of a folder-hook for that. I switched to message-hooks later when I joined some lists where list-reply was not the desired default. If I were to change to a list folder and then use 'r' without opening a message first, I'd have the opposite problem and I could perhaps use the folder-hook with '=lists/' again for that, but since not all lists want the same method of reply, that doesn't fully solve the issue for me. That's why I don't bother with it anymore (IIRC). I don't like to automate something unless I can fully automate it. Otherwise, I'm just setting myself up for failure when I forget I need to make some manual adjustment in some cases but not others. (That's a rough guideline and, like many guidelines, I don't apply it too stringently in life. :) It isn't perfect, but it saves me enough time and does the right thing by default in the most common cases that I haven't had to touch it in many years. -- Todd -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 228 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kh at panix.com Fri Apr 18 01:42:08 2025 From: kh at panix.com (Kurt Hackenberg) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 21:42:08 -0400 Subject: Mailing lists [was: using a light theme...] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 04:41:54PM -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote: >I checked and it is needed. If you read a list message and >then move back to another folder and want to reply to a >message without first opening it, you need the folder-hook >to reset the default bindings. Otherwise you press 'r' and >get an error that no list is found. Oh, I didn't think of that. I guess changing key bindings from hooks is inadequate for this. I didn't much like it anyway -- doesn't seem like the right approach. We need a new function, , that decides where to send a reply. That function could have extensive configuration written by each user, a set of rules that can look at the whole message header section, at the lists that are subscribed to or known, at the values of all configuration variables, at where the message is stored... Or, if that's not general enough, each user could write his own in C, and build a custom Mutt. Or each user could have his own AI, with all the knowledge on the internet, to decide where to send a reply. From Sebastien.Hinderer at ens-lyon.org Fri Apr 18 08:36:57 2025 From: Sebastien.Hinderer at ens-lyon.org (=?utf-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien?= Hinderer) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 10:36:57 +0200 Subject: Mailing lists [was: using a light theme...] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kurt Hackenberg (2025/04/17 21:42 -0400): > On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 04:41:54PM -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote: > > > I checked and it is needed. If you read a list message and > > then move back to another folder and want to reply to a > > message without first opening it, you need the folder-hook > > to reset the default bindings. Otherwise you press 'r' and > > get an error that no list is found. > > Oh, I didn't think of that. I guess changing key bindings from hooks is > inadequate for this. I didn't much like it anyway -- doesn't seem like the > right approach. > > We need a new function, , that decides where to send a reply. > > That function could have extensive configuration written by each user, a set > of rules that can look at the whole message header section, at the lists > that are subscribed to or known, at the values of all configuration > variables, at where the message is stored... > > Or, if that's not general enough, each user could write his own > in C, and build a custom Mutt. > > Or each user could have his own AI, with all the knowledge on the internet, > to decide where to send a reply. That sounds great! Another approach I considered would be to make it possible to pipe the message through an external command which would rewrite headers just enough to make it possible for mutt to figure out where to send its replies based on the capacities it already has. T be clear, the rewritten message would just be passed to mutt for its processing, it would not be saved anywhere nor affect the original meessage in any way. From zarniwhoop at ntlworld.com Fri Apr 18 09:57:20 2025 From: zarniwhoop at ntlworld.com (Ken Moffat) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 10:57:20 +0100 Subject: Anyone used mutt to sub or unsub to linux kerrel lists ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 04:13:15PM -0700, Akshay Hegde via Mutt-users wrote: > On 2025-04-11 22:55 +0100, Ken Moffat via Mutt-users wrote: > > I just send an empty body when I ubscribe/subscribe. And yes, to answer > your initial question, I use mutt to send the (un)subscribe email. > > You should have gotten a confirmation email a few minutes after, which > you need to reply to. That email mentions that the subject and body > don't matter. So I leave them as-is. > > If you still have issues, reaching out to postmaster at kernel.org may be > a better avenue to seek help rather than the mutt mailing list. This > address is also posted at [1]. They were able to look into mail > deliverability issues I was experiencing, so I can attest to their > helpfulness. > > [1]: https://subspace.kernel.org/vger.kernel.org.html#contacts > When I was feeling less unwell I contacted postmaster at vger.kernel.org, he has now unsubscribed me from that lsit. I turned out that a reply to the unsubscribe *did* get sent to me, but I never received it. I think that is a "feature" of my upstream (virginmedia) - they have some filtering supposed to be for trapping spam, but users cannot control it and it seems to randomly drop mails. On some lists I have received posts to check if my mail is still working because of dropped mail. Meanwhile, yesterday I posted to a texlive list and did not see my mail appear. A little while later I got a helpful reply which was "reply to all (list, sender)". SNAFU. ?en -- 'The universe is so big, sir, that it obeys all possible laws,' said Ponder, 'For a given value of "teapot". -- The Science of Discworld II, 'The Globe' From nunojsilva at ist.utl.pt Fri Apr 18 11:28:12 2025 From: nunojsilva at ist.utl.pt (Nuno Silva) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 12:28:12 +0100 Subject: Threading/references (was: Re: using a light theme with xterm (that has black background)) References: Message-ID: On 2025-04-17, dvalin--- via Mutt-users wrote: > On 16.04.25 15:05, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: [...] The message I'm replying to shows without References/In-Reply-To here. Does it lack proper threading on the mailing list side too, or is there something amiss on Gmane's side? -- Nuno Silva From erwan at rail.eu.org Fri Apr 18 11:50:22 2025 From: erwan at rail.eu.org (Erwan David) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 13:50:22 +0200 Subject: Use mutt with several accounts on same server Message-ID: I use mutt with sevreal accounts on different servers through folder-hook, account-hook, etc. But now I need to use it with two different accounts on same server. I do not succeed in differentiating them since folders are names imap://server, and I cannot use imap://user1 at server and imap://user2 at server. How would you do this ? -- Erwan David From bcc at phloxic.productions Fri Apr 18 12:04:45 2025 From: bcc at phloxic.productions (Christian Ebert) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 13:04:45 +0100 Subject: Threading/references In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: * Nuno Silva via Mutt-users on Friday, April 18, 2025 at 12:28:12 +0100: > On 2025-04-17, dvalin--- via Mutt-users wrote: > >> On 16.04.25 15:05, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: > [...] > > The message I'm replying to shows without References/In-Reply-To > here. Does it lack proper threading on the mailing list side too, or is > there something amiss on Gmane's side? It doesn't have either header via mailing list either. btw, Mutt offers a quick fix/workaround: The link-threads command: link tagged message to the current one (bound to "&" by default) http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/#link-threads -- https://instagram.com/christianebertphotos From dvalin at internode.on.net Fri Apr 18 12:18:42 2025 From: dvalin at internode.on.net (dvalin at internode.on.net) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 12:18:42 +0000 Subject: Threading/references (was: Re: using a light theme with xterm Message-ID: On 18.04.25 12:28, Nuno Silva via Mutt-users wrote: > On 2025-04-17, dvalin--- via Mutt-users wrote: > > > On 16.04.25 15:05, Ranjan Maitra via Mutt-users wrote: > [...] > > The message I'm replying to shows without References/In-Reply-To > here. Does it lack proper threading on the mailing list side too, or is > there something amiss on Gmane's side? Regrettably, the web-based MUA provided by my ISP, after ceasing to accept smtp from users, is rather deficient, not least in that regard. (It's a PITA to use too.) Still, mutt can thread on subject, so that still works. The world keeps changing, and it's not getting any better. Erik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kh at panix.com Fri Apr 18 17:58:24 2025 From: kh at panix.com (Kurt Hackenberg) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 13:58:24 -0400 Subject: Threading/references (was: Re: using a light theme with xterm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 12:18:42PM +0000, dvalin--- via Mutt-users wrote: >Regrettably, the web-based MUA provided by my ISP, after ceasing to > >accept smtp from users, is rather deficient, not least in that regard. > >(It's a PITA to use too.) In another thread, Ken Moffat wrote: >I turned out that a reply to the unsubscribe *did* get sent to me, >but I never received it. > >I think that is a "feature" of my upstream (virginmedia) - they have >some filtering supposed to be for trapping spam, but users cannot >control it and it seems to randomly drop mails. On some lists I >have received posts to check if my mail is still working because of >dropped mail. Y'all could go shopping for mail service providers. Mutt users probably know that webmail things usually are not as good as a dedicated mail reader. Also, mail service provided by ISPs generally is not all that good. Questionable antispam, unreliable IMAP servers... I guess ISPs consider that a sideline, and don't try too hard. You'll probably get better results from dedicated mail service providers. You might have to pay a little money for that, but not much. I'm happy with Panix. That's a small shop in New York City that does a number of things, including mail. Fastmail is a large mail service with a good reputation. It's not expensive -- looks like base price is $5 / month. From chema at rinzewind.org Fri Apr 18 18:02:21 2025 From: chema at rinzewind.org (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Mar=EDa?= Mateos) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 20:02:21 +0200 Subject: Threading/references (was: Re: using a light theme with xterm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20250418180221.GL3117023@rinzewind.org> On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 01:58:24PM -0400, Kurt Hackenberg wrote: >Fastmail is a large mail service with a good reputation. It's not >expensive -- looks like base price is $5 / month. Another happy Fastmail customer here. Very good IMAP support, responsive staff, plus you can download your contacts via wget to have a local copy synced with abook, for example -- which means mutt basically uses my Fastmail contacts locally. Cheers, -- Jos? Mar?a (Chema) Mateos || https://rinzewind.org